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	<title>Comments on: The neuroscience of being &#8220;undecided&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/</link>
	<description>A first draft of electoral history</description>
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		<title>By: Susan Weinschenk</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-1433</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Weinschenk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-1433</guid>
		<description>People will talk about why they are undecided, but the neuroscience research is very clear that they are sticking &quot;rational&quot; reasons on top of unconscious emotional decisions. You just can&#039;t trust what people say when they are describing why they are deciding or not deciding. I wrote a blog on this just this week: www.whatmakesthemclick.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People will talk about why they are undecided, but the neuroscience research is very clear that they are sticking &#8220;rational&#8221; reasons on top of unconscious emotional decisions. You just can&#8217;t trust what people say when they are describing why they are deciding or not deciding. I wrote a blog on this just this week: <a href="http://www.whatmakesthemclick.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.whatmakesthemclick.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gail Collins Nails the &#8220;Undecided&#8221; Voter &#171; The Northstar Chronicle</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-1139</link>
		<dc:creator>Gail Collins Nails the &#8220;Undecided&#8221; Voter &#171; The Northstar Chronicle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-1139</guid>
		<description>[...] October 16, 2008 &#183; No Comments  Gail Collins had a pretty hilarious article on the debate. I guess, in a way, she could be confirming Sam Wang&#8217;s posting on &#8220;The Neuroscience of the Undecided Voter&#8220;? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] October 16, 2008 &middot; No Comments  Gail Collins had a pretty hilarious article on the debate. I guess, in a way, she could be confirming Sam Wang&#8217;s posting on &#8220;The Neuroscience of the Undecided Voter&#8220;? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MadamaAmbi</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-1011</link>
		<dc:creator>MadamaAmbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-1011</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really into neuroscience, but right now I&#039;m too busy calling voters in FL to read all of this interesting discussion.  Based upon recent calling, I can tell you that undecideds don&#039;t like either candidate &amp; don&#039;t think either candidate can solve this country&#039;s problems.  However, assuming the person will engage in conversation with me (many hang up on me, many state that who they will vote for is their private business, many are outright abusive when they hear I&#039;m volunteering for Obama), when asked if they are better off now under a Republican administration, they will say no.  If you follow this question up with &quot;So, would it be fair to say that you are leaning Obama&quot; you might get a yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really into neuroscience, but right now I&#8217;m too busy calling voters in FL to read all of this interesting discussion.  Based upon recent calling, I can tell you that undecideds don&#8217;t like either candidate &amp; don&#8217;t think either candidate can solve this country&#8217;s problems.  However, assuming the person will engage in conversation with me (many hang up on me, many state that who they will vote for is their private business, many are outright abusive when they hear I&#8217;m volunteering for Obama), when asked if they are better off now under a Republican administration, they will say no.  If you follow this question up with &#8220;So, would it be fair to say that you are leaning Obama&#8221; you might get a yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-911</guid>
		<description>Wait a sec: We have a situation where the margin amongst decided voters changes (in this instance, moving in favor of Obama by 9 points), but the numbers of undecideds remain the same. 

To me the most likely scenario is that a number of undecideds have shifted to Obama, while an equal number of previously-decided McCain voters have now become unsure. Doesn&#039;t this seem more intuitively right than a bunch of decided people changing their minds completely, while the undecideds in between fail to make a choice? Scold me if this has already been put forth.

Imagine a sort of upside-down bell curve, with &quot;candidate preference&quot; as the x-axis and &quot;decidedness&quot; as the y-axis. The more strongly you prefer a certain candidate, the more likely you are to consider yourself &quot;decided&quot;, with a sort of valley of undecideds in the middle. In such a situation, if one pushes the preference of the nation as a whole in one direction, then some of the undecideds will now be pushed over the threshold into decided territory, and on the other end, some who previously considered themselves decided fall into the valley.

If you take this as a model, it brings up all sorts of interesting stuff, because we don&#039;t know how the actual population is distributed along the x-axis. For example, if there are a tremendous number of McCain supporters who identify themselves as &quot;decided&quot;, but are very close to the valley, and there are relatively small numbers of people in the undecided group, then a shift in mass public opinion in favor of Obama would create a big point shift, not because he gains a lot of newly decided voters, but because previously decided McCain voters suddenly become uncertain. You would be able to detect such a situation if the poll margin changed and the number of undecideds expanded. That hasn&#039;t happened, which would suggest under this model that the distribution of the voting public along the &quot;preference&quot; axis is generally flat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait a sec: We have a situation where the margin amongst decided voters changes (in this instance, moving in favor of Obama by 9 points), but the numbers of undecideds remain the same. </p>
<p>To me the most likely scenario is that a number of undecideds have shifted to Obama, while an equal number of previously-decided McCain voters have now become unsure. Doesn&#8217;t this seem more intuitively right than a bunch of decided people changing their minds completely, while the undecideds in between fail to make a choice? Scold me if this has already been put forth.</p>
<p>Imagine a sort of upside-down bell curve, with &#8220;candidate preference&#8221; as the x-axis and &#8220;decidedness&#8221; as the y-axis. The more strongly you prefer a certain candidate, the more likely you are to consider yourself &#8220;decided&#8221;, with a sort of valley of undecideds in the middle. In such a situation, if one pushes the preference of the nation as a whole in one direction, then some of the undecideds will now be pushed over the threshold into decided territory, and on the other end, some who previously considered themselves decided fall into the valley.</p>
<p>If you take this as a model, it brings up all sorts of interesting stuff, because we don&#8217;t know how the actual population is distributed along the x-axis. For example, if there are a tremendous number of McCain supporters who identify themselves as &#8220;decided&#8221;, but are very close to the valley, and there are relatively small numbers of people in the undecided group, then a shift in mass public opinion in favor of Obama would create a big point shift, not because he gains a lot of newly decided voters, but because previously decided McCain voters suddenly become uncertain. You would be able to detect such a situation if the poll margin changed and the number of undecideds expanded. That hasn&#8217;t happened, which would suggest under this model that the distribution of the voting public along the &#8220;preference&#8221; axis is generally flat.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Wang</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-906</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-906</guid>
		<description>DanM, it might not be good. But on the positive side we’d be very distracted by all the flying pigs. Joking aside, look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pollster.com/blogs/debate_reaction_town_hall_deba.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post-debate&lt;/a&gt; reaction data on issues such as who&#039;s better on the economy, foreign policy and so on. If we assume that undecideds have latent preferences they simply aren&#039;t expressing, the split of undecideds might be around 60-40 in favor of Obama. However, I will continue to implicitly assume a 50-50 split. In any event, we&#039;ll soon have data with far fewer undecideds.

Josie, likely voter screens include questions such as whether the person voted in the last election, the degree of intent to vote, and so on. Evidently it is possible to be a near-certain voter yet be undecided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DanM, it might not be good. But on the positive side we’d be very distracted by all the flying pigs. Joking aside, look at <a href="http://www.pollster.com/blogs/debate_reaction_town_hall_deba.php" rel="nofollow">post-debate</a> reaction data on issues such as who&#8217;s better on the economy, foreign policy and so on. If we assume that undecideds have latent preferences they simply aren&#8217;t expressing, the split of undecideds might be around 60-40 in favor of Obama. However, I will continue to implicitly assume a 50-50 split. In any event, we&#8217;ll soon have data with far fewer undecideds.</p>
<p>Josie, likely voter screens include questions such as whether the person voted in the last election, the degree of intent to vote, and so on. Evidently it is possible to be a near-certain voter yet be undecided.</p>
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		<title>By: Josie</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>Josie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-897</guid>
		<description>Sam:  Two equally ranked executives are standing in an elevator deciding what to have for lunch.  They could go to the steak place or an Italian place nearby that are equally good and equally priced.  How do they decide which place to go?  (In this actual event, it took them five minutes to decide on the Italian place)  The executive indecision was born of apathy, they didn&#039;t care which place, as long as they ate.  I imagine some undecideds really are at a preference midpoint, for various reasons.  Maybe they dislike both candidates equally, like the episode of South Park.  If undecided voters do have a subliminal opinion,  is it enough get them to the polls?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam:  Two equally ranked executives are standing in an elevator deciding what to have for lunch.  They could go to the steak place or an Italian place nearby that are equally good and equally priced.  How do they decide which place to go?  (In this actual event, it took them five minutes to decide on the Italian place)  The executive indecision was born of apathy, they didn&#8217;t care which place, as long as they ate.  I imagine some undecideds really are at a preference midpoint, for various reasons.  Maybe they dislike both candidates equally, like the episode of South Park.  If undecided voters do have a subliminal opinion,  is it enough get them to the polls?</p>
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		<title>By: DanM</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>DanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-895</guid>
		<description>So, if Senator Obama were to win all of the states in which he currently is polling over 50%, but no others, I guess that would be equivalent to the assumption that all of the &#039;undecided&#039; voters end up choosing McCain.  For those of us who are incorrigible worriers, tell us about this worst-case scenario for the democratic candidate: what would the electoral result be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, if Senator Obama were to win all of the states in which he currently is polling over 50%, but no others, I guess that would be equivalent to the assumption that all of the &#8216;undecided&#8217; voters end up choosing McCain.  For those of us who are incorrigible worriers, tell us about this worst-case scenario for the democratic candidate: what would the electoral result be?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Wang</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-893</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-893</guid>
		<description>One simple idea is that &quot;undecided&quot; is a midpoint between preferring Obama or preferring McCain. However, as I have indicated in the main post, I think it is at least equally plausible that people have a stated preference, but are unable or unwilling to articulate it. This idea is assumed by several of you (Jeff, Nicholas). The data above are consistent with the idea, for the following reason.

Look at the change in decided-voter margin over time. At a minimum, this swing represents either the number of undecideds forming a preference that they can state, half that number of decideds changing their mind, or a mixture.

To pick the largest example, in the last 4 weeks the swing has been 9 points. At the same time, the number of undecideds has stayed the same. The simplest interpretation is that at least some voters had an expressed preference, but switched.

One caveat has to do with likely voter screens. Obama and McCain supporters might have maintained their preference, but their likelihood of voting has changed. However, this should still cause fluctuations in the undecided fraction, which aren&#039;t observed. So for now, I lean against this hypothesis.

Adriel, your argument is appealing, but &quot;common sense&quot; is a speculation, not a conclusion. I am not aware of historical data that support the idea that undecideds will break massively in one direction.

Josie - Do people say they are undecided because they don&#039;t have access to their true opinion? Are they truly undecided? Are they mulishly stubborn about answering some stranger&#039;s questions? I suspect the first two are dominant factors, but I don&#039;t know.

Nic, there appear to be fewer &quot;undecideds&quot; in swing states. For example, since Sept. 1 they are 5.5 +/- 0.6% in OH (N=30) and 5.0+/-0.5% in FL (N=28). In regard to the Bradley effect, based on the last 12 years of gubernatorial and Senate races, it is on average zero. Any other assumption would not be a suitable default assumption. I have posted on this topic before.

Everyone else: individual pollsters can guess wrong in likely voter screens and other factors such as weighting. But on average, state polls are quite accurate in predicting the winner. Keep in mind that we are talking about effects here that are likely to add up to no more than a few percentage points. They could matter, though not if the election were held today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One simple idea is that &#8220;undecided&#8221; is a midpoint between preferring Obama or preferring McCain. However, as I have indicated in the main post, I think it is at least equally plausible that people have a stated preference, but are unable or unwilling to articulate it. This idea is assumed by several of you (Jeff, Nicholas). The data above are consistent with the idea, for the following reason.</p>
<p>Look at the change in decided-voter margin over time. At a minimum, this swing represents either the number of undecideds forming a preference that they can state, half that number of decideds changing their mind, or a mixture.</p>
<p>To pick the largest example, in the last 4 weeks the swing has been 9 points. At the same time, the number of undecideds has stayed the same. The simplest interpretation is that at least some voters had an expressed preference, but switched.</p>
<p>One caveat has to do with likely voter screens. Obama and McCain supporters might have maintained their preference, but their likelihood of voting has changed. However, this should still cause fluctuations in the undecided fraction, which aren&#8217;t observed. So for now, I lean against this hypothesis.</p>
<p>Adriel, your argument is appealing, but &#8220;common sense&#8221; is a speculation, not a conclusion. I am not aware of historical data that support the idea that undecideds will break massively in one direction.</p>
<p>Josie &#8211; Do people say they are undecided because they don&#8217;t have access to their true opinion? Are they truly undecided? Are they mulishly stubborn about answering some stranger&#8217;s questions? I suspect the first two are dominant factors, but I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>Nic, there appear to be fewer &#8220;undecideds&#8221; in swing states. For example, since Sept. 1 they are 5.5 +/- 0.6% in OH (N=30) and 5.0+/-0.5% in FL (N=28). In regard to the Bradley effect, based on the last 12 years of gubernatorial and Senate races, it is on average zero. Any other assumption would not be a suitable default assumption. I have posted on this topic before.</p>
<p>Everyone else: individual pollsters can guess wrong in likely voter screens and other factors such as weighting. But on average, state polls are quite accurate in predicting the winner. Keep in mind that we are talking about effects here that are likely to add up to no more than a few percentage points. They could matter, though not if the election were held today.</p>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-878</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-878</guid>
		<description>Hello Dr. Wang:

Thank you for this marvellous website and its interesting analyses. 

Are you aware of any data which shows what proportion of &quot;undecided&quot; people eventually decide just to stay home on election day, and thus don&#039;t end up affecting things one way or the other?

On a more general note, I&#039;m guessing that most of the polls you use are of &quot;likely&quot; voters.  Are you aware of any data which shows how closely the polling firm&#039;s designation corresponds to reality?

I ask these questions because it strikes me that the difference in voter turnout from election to election (as shown in the table here: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763629.html ) seems to exceed the current meta-margin and I do not understand completely how turn out interacts with and affects your analyses.

Again, thanks for your work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Dr. Wang:</p>
<p>Thank you for this marvellous website and its interesting analyses. </p>
<p>Are you aware of any data which shows what proportion of &#8220;undecided&#8221; people eventually decide just to stay home on election day, and thus don&#8217;t end up affecting things one way or the other?</p>
<p>On a more general note, I&#8217;m guessing that most of the polls you use are of &#8220;likely&#8221; voters.  Are you aware of any data which shows how closely the polling firm&#8217;s designation corresponds to reality?</p>
<p>I ask these questions because it strikes me that the difference in voter turnout from election to election (as shown in the table here: <a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763629.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763629.html</a> ) seems to exceed the current meta-margin and I do not understand completely how turn out interacts with and affects your analyses.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for your work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Rems</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/07/the-neuroscience-of-being-undecided/comment-page-1/#comment-876</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Rems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1631#comment-876</guid>
		<description>One piece of this I can&#039;t see how to break down would be if one candidate had a block of voters that lies to pollsters.  Conceivably, you could have a piece of candidate X&#039;s base that gives consistently false data for some nefarious purpose.  Farfetched, I admit; and a pollster who counted a voter with a lawn sign or wearing a button supporting X who said he supported Y should have a mechanism to note this.  Still, it seemed to me at the time a lot of evangelical Bush voters in 2000 and 2004 did not trust pollsters, and their systematic refusal to participate on one side screwed with the polls.

It doesn&#039;t look like any of this will matter this year, but it is something that could come up again.

Has anyone seen a worthwhile discussion of statistical and/or meta-analysis use in detecting fraud, say in those Diebold voting machines or other classic fixed voting scams?  Will we have U.N. election monitors in the U.S.?  Should we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One piece of this I can&#8217;t see how to break down would be if one candidate had a block of voters that lies to pollsters.  Conceivably, you could have a piece of candidate X&#8217;s base that gives consistently false data for some nefarious purpose.  Farfetched, I admit; and a pollster who counted a voter with a lawn sign or wearing a button supporting X who said he supported Y should have a mechanism to note this.  Still, it seemed to me at the time a lot of evangelical Bush voters in 2000 and 2004 did not trust pollsters, and their systematic refusal to participate on one side screwed with the polls.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t look like any of this will matter this year, but it is something that could come up again.</p>
<p>Has anyone seen a worthwhile discussion of statistical and/or meta-analysis use in detecting fraud, say in those Diebold voting machines or other classic fixed voting scams?  Will we have U.N. election monitors in the U.S.?  Should we?</p>
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