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	<title>Comments on: The cell phone effect: about 1 percent</title>
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	<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/</link>
	<description>A first draft of electoral history</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Coppola</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Coppola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-584</guid>
		<description>No offense taken, William.  Thanks for the article.  Data is always a good thing.  Sorry I missed it the first time.  Of course, now I have to read it, and Sam&#039;s link too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No offense taken, William.  Thanks for the article.  Data is always a good thing.  Sorry I missed it the first time.  Of course, now I have to read it, and Sam&#8217;s link too.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Wang</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-576</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-576</guid>
		<description>I just read the paper William &lt;a href=&quot;http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;provided&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s quite good. Thank you! I have great readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read the paper William <a href="http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf" rel="nofollow">provided</a>. It&#8217;s quite good. Thank you! I have great readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Wang</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-573</guid>
		<description>Everyone with an interest in Bradley/Wilder, let&#039;s please stick with actual evidence. Michael, I&#039;m sorry I was a little tart with you.

Here is an example of evidence, though still only a single case. In a New York City mayoral primary between David Dinkins and Ed Koch, the Dinkins led by 0 to 5% in the weeks before the election, but ended up winning by 8%. See pages 487 and 490 of this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.columbia.edu/cu/siwps/publication_files/mitchell/Win%20Place%20or%20Show-%20Fundarising%20and%20Electoral%20Competition.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PDF&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone with an interest in Bradley/Wilder, let&#8217;s please stick with actual evidence. Michael, I&#8217;m sorry I was a little tart with you.</p>
<p>Here is an example of evidence, though still only a single case. In a New York City mayoral primary between David Dinkins and Ed Koch, the Dinkins led by 0 to 5% in the weeks before the election, but ended up winning by 8%. See pages 487 and 490 of this <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/siwps/publication_files/mitchell/Win%20Place%20or%20Show-%20Fundarising%20and%20Electoral%20Competition.pdf" rel="nofollow">PDF</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-571</guid>
		<description>Michael, no offense, but it has been studied: look at my earlier post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, no offense, but it has been studied: look at my earlier post.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Coppola</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Coppola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-568</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;you are guilty of selectively accepting one piece of evidence that agrees with your position&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, I wasn&#039;t taking a position, just asking a question.  Having lived through the Wilder election, I can tell you it certainly seemed like something strange was going on.  You have a lt. gov. in an overwhelmingly popular and successful administration running for gov.  He never trails in any published poll.  Leads by more than MOE in most of them.  Is called the winner early on election night by all three networks based on exit polling that predicts a 10-point win.  Election ends up in re-count and final margin is ~6,500 votes.

I suppose that&#039;s all anecdotal in a way, and I don&#039;t really know where to track down the internals of those polls almost twenty years later.  But it&#039;s something I&#039;d think should be studied rather than dismissed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>you are guilty of selectively accepting one piece of evidence that agrees with your position</i></p>
<p>Actually, I wasn&#8217;t taking a position, just asking a question.  Having lived through the Wilder election, I can tell you it certainly seemed like something strange was going on.  You have a lt. gov. in an overwhelmingly popular and successful administration running for gov.  He never trails in any published poll.  Leads by more than MOE in most of them.  Is called the winner early on election night by all three networks based on exit polling that predicts a 10-point win.  Election ends up in re-count and final margin is ~6,500 votes.</p>
<p>I suppose that&#8217;s all anecdotal in a way, and I don&#8217;t really know where to track down the internals of those polls almost twenty years later.  But it&#8217;s something I&#8217;d think should be studied rather than dismissed.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-567</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know that the Bradley effect will occur in this election, even if it has occurred in previous elections.  My point is there may be various systematic effects that could throw the poll results off.  These effects might turn out to reinforce or cancel one another out.  The validity of your &quot;meta-analysis&quot; rests on the typical statistical assumptions that the polls are &quot;independent events&quot; and there are no systematic errors.  I don&#039;t think you can account for systematic effects much better than what you already do, which is to bracket your results with +-2%.  If systematic effects break one way or another by this amount, we can see what happens to the initial result that didn&#039;t assume such effects.  As you say, you don&#039;t have much confidence in Nate Silver&#039;s estimate of the cell phone effect.  But I agree it is fun to gossip about these possibilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know that the Bradley effect will occur in this election, even if it has occurred in previous elections.  My point is there may be various systematic effects that could throw the poll results off.  These effects might turn out to reinforce or cancel one another out.  The validity of your &#8220;meta-analysis&#8221; rests on the typical statistical assumptions that the polls are &#8220;independent events&#8221; and there are no systematic errors.  I don&#8217;t think you can account for systematic effects much better than what you already do, which is to bracket your results with +-2%.  If systematic effects break one way or another by this amount, we can see what happens to the initial result that didn&#8217;t assume such effects.  As you say, you don&#8217;t have much confidence in Nate Silver&#8217;s estimate of the cell phone effect.  But I agree it is fun to gossip about these possibilities.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Wang</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Michael Coppola, that is a well-known anecdote told to support the argument. For this reason it&#039;s sometimes called the Bradley/Wilder effect.

However, you are guilty of selectively accepting one piece of evidence that agrees with your position. This is called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/opinion/27aamodt.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;biased assimilation&lt;/a&gt;. There have been African-American candidates besides Wilder. What happened in those cases? Is there a systematic survey of the evidence?

A contrary bit of evidence is that Obama is said to have outperformed polls in his primary contests. Does this suggest that there is an anti-Bradley effect? Nate Silver has suggested as much, and is now assigning undecided African-American voters to Obama. I consider this to be an error as well.

To reiterate, I am looking for evidence of an unbiased nature. I am certainly interested in getting to the bottom of the subject. I am open to the whole range of options - Bradley, no effect, anti-Bradley. But the existing lore does not meet my standard of proof.

That having been said, if you have articles with actual data to send me, including documentation of the Wilder case, by all means do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Coppola, that is a well-known anecdote told to support the argument. For this reason it&#8217;s sometimes called the Bradley/Wilder effect.</p>
<p>However, you are guilty of selectively accepting one piece of evidence that agrees with your position. This is called <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/opinion/27aamodt.html" rel="nofollow">biased assimilation</a>. There have been African-American candidates besides Wilder. What happened in those cases? Is there a systematic survey of the evidence?</p>
<p>A contrary bit of evidence is that Obama is said to have outperformed polls in his primary contests. Does this suggest that there is an anti-Bradley effect? Nate Silver has suggested as much, and is now assigning undecided African-American voters to Obama. I consider this to be an error as well.</p>
<p>To reiterate, I am looking for evidence of an unbiased nature. I am certainly interested in getting to the bottom of the subject. I am open to the whole range of options &#8211; Bradley, no effect, anti-Bradley. But the existing lore does not meet my standard of proof.</p>
<p>That having been said, if you have articles with actual data to send me, including documentation of the Wilder case, by all means do so.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-565</guid>
		<description>According to http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf the Bradley effect hasn&#039;t been seen since the mid-90s.

In fact, in the 2008 primaries, Southern states saw a &quot;Reverse Bradley Effect&quot;.  We don&#039;t yet know if it will carry over to the general though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to <a href="http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf</a> the Bradley effect hasn&#8217;t been seen since the mid-90s.</p>
<p>In fact, in the 2008 primaries, Southern states saw a &#8220;Reverse Bradley Effect&#8221;.  We don&#8217;t yet know if it will carry over to the general though.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Coppola</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Coppola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-563</guid>
		<description>Sam,

If you dispute the existence of the Bradley effect, what is your take on the 1989 gubernatorial election in Virginia?  Doug Wilder had a 4-15 point lead in all the pre-election polls, but won by &gt;0.5%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam,</p>
<p>If you dispute the existence of the Bradley effect, what is your take on the 1989 gubernatorial election in Virginia?  Doug Wilder had a 4-15 point lead in all the pre-election polls, but won by &gt;0.5%.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Wang</title>
		<link>http://election.princeton.edu/2008/09/25/the-cell-phone-effect-and-how-to-correct-it/comment-page-1/#comment-562</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://election.princeton.edu/?p=1238#comment-562</guid>
		<description>hardheaded liberal: Of course in a close race every vote is important. But I do not manufacture ponies - I just count them. What I am doing here is trying to arrive at a data-based estimate of the effect that people love to gossip about.

Richard/BirdLives: your points are interesting but speculative. I especially contest the size and even the existence of the &quot;Bradley effect.&quot; If you have some actual documentation of this phenomenon that is not based on exit polls, I promise to make use of it in a future posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hardheaded liberal: Of course in a close race every vote is important. But I do not manufacture ponies &#8211; I just count them. What I am doing here is trying to arrive at a data-based estimate of the effect that people love to gossip about.</p>
<p>Richard/BirdLives: your points are interesting but speculative. I especially contest the size and even the existence of the &#8220;Bradley effect.&#8221; If you have some actual documentation of this phenomenon that is not based on exit polls, I promise to make use of it in a future posting.</p>
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